Dean Hachamovitch on the IEBlog:
We’ve decided that IE8 will, by default, interpret web content in the most standards compliant way it can. This decision is a change from what we’ve posted previously.
This is really good news. The previous decision that IE8 would be IE7 unless you specifically told it to be IE8 was one that I was really quite unhappy with; it ignited discussion all over the web developer world. The reason that this is really good news isn’t because IE8 will be IE8 by default (although that’s exactly what was wanted): it’s really good news because this is an example (the first example?) of Microsoft being prepared to break backwards compatibility in order to do it right. It’s an example of trying to take people who are doing things wrong and help them to move into a world of doing it right, rather than bending over backwards to help those doing it wrong and punishing those doing it right. That’s been Microsoft policy up to now, and I’ve always felt it to be penny-wise and pound-foolish; it keeps everyone working, but inhibits progress. This is a fundamental change in policy, based on the new Microsoft interoperability promise. And that’s a brave move by Microsoft. The IE team are to be congratulated, because making IE8 default to being as standards-compliant as possible is going to make the web better; it’ll be easier to build web sites and web applications that work across browsers, and those applications will be able to do more things. That’s bad for lock-in, but it’s good for the web as a whole, and that’s important. Dean Hachamovitch again:
Shorter term, leading up not just to IE8’s release but broader IE8 adoption, this choice creates a clear call to action to site developers to make sure their web content works well in IE.
What we need to do that is beta releases of IE8 that can be installed alongside previous IE releases. Nobody who’s an IE user wants to replace their system browser with a beta, because betas break — that’s the point of betas — but we do all want to test with them. Allow IE8 to be installed in some form of “standalone” mode in an official, supported, way. The IE team have said in the past that the existing standalone mode is not supported, but if we could have a supported standalone mode then testing is much more likely to happen, and testing is what we need here. (Note: “create a whole new Windows installation in a virtual machine and test IE8 there” is not really what I’m talking about here.) Working with the WINE team to allow IE8 to run under Wine would be pretty helpful, too, especially given that this change in IE’s direction is being driven by a promise of interoperability. This bodes well for IE passing the newly-released Acid 3 test, too. Hixie describes how the WebKit team are flying ahead on Acid3 support, just as they did with Acid 2; since Opera are pretty good at supporting recent standards, and the IE team are not only prepared to make serious standards-based decisions but have already committed to passing Acid 3, the Mozilla team might end up being last to pass, which would be a headline they don’t want. In short: well done IE team. Now let’s see IE8 kick some arse.
Would this have happened without the EU maxi-fine? Think about it next time you hear somebody saying that “the EU is useless”.
Please do keep in mind that the “backwards compatibility” you mention can also be called “proprietary lockin”, I doubt microsoft ever intended with IE to follow any standards which are accepted in the wider world, but instead wanted to invent standards people would find it difficult to migrate away from.
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I would have been more happy if they had decided to drop development of IE once and for all…but maybe that’s just me.
Still, if it has to be around I *really* hope they drop support for ActiveX components.
Karl: I agree that it’s proprietary lockin. The Microsoft argument there has been that we, the web standards community, are basically demanding that they go back in time and don’t do that, which they can’t do. They (Microsoft) feel that they shouldn’t be condemned for bad decisions that they made in the past; repentance is possible. Today’s decision to say “we consider forward progress more important than maintaining our proprietary lockin” is a good step on the road to that repentance.
Giacomo: I’m not sure. I imagine that it was a factor in the decision, certainly. I don’t think the EU’s useless; I think sometimes they’re good (like on this issue) and sometimes they’re bad (like some of the time on software patents), but I rarely think they’re neutral or useless on technological issues.
The first step to repenting should be having a sacrifice in the style of Ballmer, tied to a burning cross, roasted crucification
After what the man has said in the past about Linux, open source etc… He shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near this “repentant” Microsoft, he is, in and of himself the major hurdle to any future success of Microsoft.
Of course, this is a good move, not one I would expect to have been made without the EU interference.
I don’t find it very inspiring when, in the IEBlog, Dean says IE8 will do the best it can with web standards. Not very uplifting words is it?
Rob: true, but…what else are they going to say? “We promise that there will be no bugs”? Hardly realistic.
It’s possible that “IE8 will…interpret web content in the most standards compliant way it can” is secret code for “we’re not going to change anything”, and I can see why people don’t want to give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt on this, but I personally think that they’re going to try.
“the Mozilla team might end up being last to pass”? Ridiculous. The layout stuff they’ve been fixing in IE8 may help with how they render it, but the tests in Acid3 are pretty much all for DOM behaviors, which means they need to support the W3C event model, among other things. That’s a release’s worth of effort in and of itself, for sure. That’s not including the things like SVG or downloadable TTF font support the test uses that will be similarly large amounts of code.
And really, why are you blaming Mozilla for being slow when the test is being released at the end of a release cycle? There’s nothing they can do about that (really, the only organization that has any ability to control that is Microsoft, by virtue of being the last to implement Acid2), and pushing off a release purely to implement the big features Acid3 requires is idiocy of the first degree. The web’s gotten by without a lot of the stuff in Acid3, it’ll deal for a little longer — and it’ll take advantage of the new functionality Firefox 3 supports while it does so. In any case Firefox 4 will pass Acid3, I’m sure!
Jeff: hey, calm down a bit, dude.
I’m not blaming Mozilla particularly. My point is that Safari got a certain amount of kudos for being first to pass Acid 2; whoever first passes Acid 3 will get the same. Similarly, the last to pass Acid 2 was always going to be Internet Explorer, because everyone expects it to be rubbish. If IE passes Acid 3 before one of its rivals, it’s going to make the rival look pretty bad — “even Internet Explorer has passed”!
whatever
Stuart, I wasn’t attacking you
I’m sure you know that in the UK the “EU debate” is constantly being rehashed in pubs and offices with tabloid-fuelled arguments like “they stoppin’ us from havin’ huge bananas! the EU is pointless!” etc etc (and then they jump on a plane for Spain, but I digress).
It’s nice to be able to remind people that the EU is often a force for good, when we embrace it and use it properly.
btw, I don’t think we’ll ever see a “standalone IE8″ after all the effort they put in making sure you can’t take it off Windows (and from a different perspective, forcing them to do it by an authority would open the door to requests to allow third-party browsers to replace IE on Windows, lowering demand for Linux).
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